Keep him busy??
Zippy was better today. I am wondering if he just needs more to keep him occupied. I'm going to try riding him more now that we are getting into the New Year.
He did start off with the choppy walk but I pushed it forward and pushed it forward. When he jogged I quietly brought him back and then pushed the walk on again. After a couple of minutes his back engaged and we were away, doing some great work for 3 years old. A good try at shoulder in and travers. Some fantastic leg yield left. Then a clue to his behaviour issues - he mistook my aids for leg yield right. I attempted to correct him, gently, and he set against me and went straight into the choppy walk.
I set that right with push on, half halt, push on, half halt and we got it well. Then the same thing happened with trot left. He went into a terribly choppy and stiff trot with no lateral bend - difficult when you have to negotiate the end of a barn 12 yards wide! The answer was the same again, though difficult with so little space - push on. He had to do some ridiculously tight little circles to start with, but finally realised that he was going to clunk his own legs until he got himself straight and balanced. Which he did. One circuit almost perfect, and we stopped. He looked very happy with himself at the end.
I think a lot of the clue to him is that he is a desperate perfectionist. He cannot bear to get things wrong and be corrected, and he cannot bear not to understand what you are asking for (difficult when you want to teach him new things!).
Unfortunately, instead of staying calm and trying to work things out, he tenses, panics, and appears totally obstinate in his refusal to try. The only thing to do is to put him in a situation where he stumbles on the truth for himself - like trotting five metre circles. In general I'd say that was a bad idea for a horse his age, but he has to work it out for himself that it's too difficult, and work out what makes it easier. If you try to tell him, all you get is defiance and tension.
He's going to be a fascinating horse to train. Ten years ago I think I would have made a complete mess of him, but I have the patience to work with him now. He's going to be SO sensitive, he should end up a total joy. Fingers crossed :-)
Now to Jazz. He didn't want to work today! He dawdled around the arena. Halt/walk transitions failed to achieve anything. Walk/trot transitions got a horrible lumpy trot and a halt instead of a walk on. He objected to being flicked with a whip and began to set. I got off. We were only going to end up in a fight otherwise!
I had a good think about what to do while he wandered around aimlessly with his reins tucked under the stirrups. I decided to put him overbent and use his strength against him for a few minutes, rather than have him setting against me. It worked immediately. We got some super trot/halt and two fantastic walk/canter transitions with pretty decent attempts at canter/walk too. He knew what a good boy he'd been!
I'm giving myself a pat on the back today. Two horses in a less than ideal frame of mind to work, but both of them ending up improving.
C
ps I have read things that explain in great detail, with diagrams sometimes, how a horse that is overbent can't properly use it's back and all I can say is that maybe it depends how you do it, but it's certainly not true! I wouldn't train like it all the time (there are British Team members who do!!) but it has its place on the right day with the right horse.
posted by cptrayes @ 4:15 PM
10 comments
10 Comments:
Overbent for a correction or even a preparation for an extension or other movement is perfectly fine. It does make the horse release its back. Overdone, though and riding for great lengths of time runs the risk of injuring a horse's back or simply causing terrible muscle cramping.
A Danish trainer once rode my PJ that way for on to an hour and it took 3-4 chiropractic/acupuncture treatments to get the poor boy pain free.
As far as I am concerned, such flexion is a training tool to be used for specific purpose just like a half halt.
As for Zip, the perfectionist mentality is a hard one to deal with. (PJ was one.) These horses get overly emotional about making mistakes and also about "not getting it," right away when learning something new. Two things that generally work...if a new exercise causes anxiety, quit for a moment and go on to something the horse can do well. Generously and often praise for small successes or even for just doing something well. If one approach doesn't work, find an optional "back door" technique that kind of sneaks in what you want and even if you have a tiny success--one correct step--give it up for the day and try again tomorrow. Sometimes their brains take longer to process information because their emotions are blocking the learning process. Reassure, reassure, and reassure, letting him know that you are happy with his trying, even if the effort fails.
try it in hand with Zip?
Ah bless him he obviously so wants to do well for you.Pleased you feel 'mature'enough to get somewhere with him,im obviously where you were at 10years ago:))))
I had a trainer who was herself trained by a UK team member, Jean, who advised her to work the horse overbent the entire time at home and only let it up at competitions. My friend is trained by a rider who competes Grand prix. On her advice, my friend's 4 year old (now 6) has been trained in draw reins for the two years she has owned him. It obviously gets the marks that they are looking for, and I wonder how many more of the top riders do it?
He gets upset when he doesn't understand what you are asking for in hand too Claire :-)
Nicola, you're years ahead of me!
C
Caroline, watching some of the training tapes Stacie brought, I saw a good number of times when the horses were overbent. Mind you, this is not rolkur at the max, but simply "deeper" than what is considered correct and definitely behind the vertical.
I can see how this would help in competition, but is it good training to do it all the time for the sake of a good score?
Need to discuss this with my trainer who works with Cindy Ishoy of Canada. I'd really be interested to hear her take on all of this.
I have used it before for a few minutes as well on my sore boy.. he was lame in the stifle so long he's afraid of working correctly and would 'block' at the base of his neck instead of release his back. Working deep for a few strides then asking him 'showed' him that it wouldn't hurt like he thought and voila, block was gone.
I also caught hell for it by nearly everyone..
Well I'm with you guys. It definitely works, in the right place at the right time. I certainly wouldn't want to train like it all the time, because it seems unfair to me to make them keep their huge shoulder muscles that "up" all the time. But it's clear that many top riders think it's a good idea....
There are an awful lot of things that are done for the sake of a good score that I would not contemplate - withdrawal of water for 24 hours to dehydrate a super fit eventer to calm it down before the dressage is one. Putting saddle soap in the mouth of a tooth grinder is another (it lasts for one test). Putting a show horse being measured for a life height certificate into a horse walker for 24 hours to knacker it so completely that it shrinks 2 inches. Putting chemicals on a showjumpers legs to make it hurt like hell if it hits a fence (just been made illegal by the BSJA). I once saw a horse that had obviously been trained by rapping - it wouldn't go near the practice fence any time there was a person standing on each side. I could go on ...
:-(
Now there is another side to all this. Personally, I do believe all the trainers that I have worked with aspire to getting the horse on the bit by suppling and getting him "through," insisting that he reach "for the bit" not overflex because of the pressure.
The down side of this is that my horses are harder to ride correctly and must be ridded through to the bit in order to go "on the bit." What I am beginning to see with some of these videos is that these other horses are light to the hand because they are often overflexed and react immediately to the bit by flexing to it.
That, to my mind is riding the horse front to back instead of back to front. Most of the riding theory we read suggests that is not the way to train a horse. But, if the horse has been in side reins, draw reins or even rolkur type framing from day one of its training, the no wonder they appear to be round all the time. (Remember how Zip relied on the hand when you first rode him?)
So, what is right? What I am striving for certainly is more physically demanding of the rider, and my horses take more contact to the hand as a result. "Light" is a relative term and for me it means I can feel the horse through the bit.
Have I been taking the hard route when there is an easier technique out there? Or does the easier technique create, in the end, the same kind of athelete? Does it matter which method you use on a talented horse as opposed to a more average horse? 'Tis a puzzlement.
i reckon, from what I've read, that the longer route is more correct - particularly when one considers that those trained the longer, more correct, route, last the longest as well! Both physically and mentally.
Mmmm - well I certainly saw one at the Young Horse championships which showed the downside of that method of training - the rider was struggling the whole way through the test to get his lovely grey mare to lift her head off her chest. It was a dead giveway as to what he'd been doing!
I'm with Claire, I think the stress it puts on the horse is enormous and may account for the tales that you hear of 6 year old dressage horses needing joint injections to stay sound.
The other reason that I have seen used for Rollkur, Jean, is to get submission from a horse which is not naturally submissive. In that respect, I would say that it does make it a lot easier to round up an unsubmissive horse, but it just doesn't feel like the right way to get it to me. I can't quite put my finger on why ....
C
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