Jazz on the analyst's couch.
We took Jazz today to the farm ride. The idea was to see if we could both just enjoy ourselves, and to guage what the issue is with his jumping. I didn't take a whip. I just let him look at the jumps and decide what he wanted to do. He has done this ride and every fence on it three times (or is it five?) before. I sat quiet, supportive and I listened to try to hear what he was trying to say.
The result was fascinating. It was pretty clear that we have two problems and the first is by far the bigger. He is afraid. He is most definitely so unsure of how to use his own body and where to put his own feet and that he might hurt himself that he simply wants to run away and be somewhere else. I could feel it. Even at tiny fences, he was unsure of himself.
I think the situation is that he is phenomenally physically talented, and that because of my ability to convince horses to do what I want them to do, we have managed to train him to jump 3ft showjumps - until something confuses him, like being indoors with less space. Any upset scrambles his brain and all his programming of where to put his feet disappears out of the window. But the truth is that he has only ever jumped 3ft courses for me. However proficiently he did it (and boy oh boy, he did!) he's not doing it for HIM.
Today, I let him do it for him and after a while he was choosing to canter up to little fences and jump them. All his own idea. He finished with six lovely jumps, entirely of his own choice, getting faster and faster as he went.
Our second problem is that when he gets a little tired, or a little bored, his enormously strong will and slightly lazy character comes into play and he simply cannot see why he has to continue. This is a minor issue and one to be addressed with consistency of handling and greater fitness.
So where are we? Well, in spite of advice that I have received from some experts today (I'm asking everyone I know what they think I should do!) - that a strong willed warmblood can never be changed, I don't agree. Heaven knows we've changed enough already about his breaking out of stables, trashing lorries, bolting on hacks and leaving dressage arenas!!
I think what I have is a total baby, who is actually quite frightened but hiding it, and is doing things because he knows I want him to and not because he wants to. We need to back off and find the level where he is jumping from choice - HIS choice. Where he actually wants to play the game. I think that Drag Hunting will be a total thrill for him. Luckily, I love it too, and double luck I have a hunt near me who have a £10 subscription and a £20 a day cap, which is less than half what most charge. Not only that but (triple whammy superluck) Superhubby says he'd love to drive me to the meet and wait 3 hours for me to come back again.
So how lucky am I? I have a fantastic horse, by far and away the best I've ever bought. But he simply isn't ready mentally to do the stuff that is physically well within his grasp. He doesn't believe in himself. All thoughts of any affiliated competition are now cancelled until next year, and we'll spend between now and Christmas finding out whether hunting in company gets him excited about jumping. The first early season hunt ride is on September 2nd from a place less than 10 miles away, and there's one almost equally close every Sunday until Christmas. Let's see what happens.
I don't honestly understand why these Warmblood horses have a reputation for being "any amateur's ride" - this is far and away the most complicated training exercise I've ever taken on in my life :-) I'm thanking my lucky stars time and again that he doesn't buck or want me off, and that he has a character to die for and a physical talent that makes him worth all the effort!
C
posted by cptrayes @ 2:52 PM
13 comments
13 Comments:
Yep he's a baby, yes hunting will help, but also I agree with a comment from yesterday that he would also benefit from being turned away for a few months to "get his head round" what he's learnt since being with you. I'm a firm believer that horses need holidays (mentally as well as physically) just like us.
Tracey B
Ah well we're going to have to agree to differ on that one :-) ! It's GOOD that people have different viewpoints, please don't think I'm geting shirty or arguing with you Tracey but I'll just explain why.
I believe that people need holidays because they don't much like their paid jobs, and/or their home lives are stressful. I wouldn't keep a horse if it found its home life with me stressful or if it didn't like the job I wanted it to do. So I don't believe horses need "holidays". Since I got my own life in order I've had only a few days away a year in the last ten fifteen. So he can have a few days if he wants - when I do :-) !! But I've never been able to see the logic that he would get his head around an activity like jumping by standing in the field. He might grow up, yes, but all the horses I've ever had have done that anyway without being turned away. Trouble is, there's no way we can prove it either way, is there???
There is a ton of anecdotal evidence on both sides. Also I think I'm right in saying that turning away is largely a British habit - perhaps something to do with our lousy weather in the winter :-) ?
C.
smart move .... as always, horse comes first! totally agree with the not turning away .... could never see the point, you just have to start again when their hol is over! a day or three here and there is much better .... any more and the little beggars get bored and start plotting.
i have a *can't shan't won't* ned ... and its consistency that works every time. and going back to what he feels he can comfortably cope with .... and just a little *do a bit more* each time.
quote "Where he actually wants to play the game. " .... thats the key isnt it .... that he wants to do it.
enjoy your hunting ....
Sounds good to me. Although I've said it before, gymnastic work, posing all kinds of "problems" for him to solve at an easy height might well be in order too.
I can recall jumping hundreds of cross rails with Russell R., not because he couldn't do the height but because it was they way to teach him how to use his talent with confidence in all kinds of situations. He too was a horse that never wanted to hurt himself, so learning that he could extricate himself from a tricky distance was really important.
Jumping a 3'6" fence with a take off crossrail on stride in front of it is a piece of cake, but to do that fence by itself is another matter entirely. I jumped Russell over a 5' fence once with a take off fence in front of it. We MAY have done that height once in a jumper competition--with my heart in my throat--but I'd never have tried it without that helper fence. Gymnastics!! So important.
However, when I worked with Stephen Bradley, an event trainer, he had me jumping Toby over 3' in his first ever jumping session--through a grid. And, when I took PJ on his first ever cross country school, and his first ever jumping training, the event trainer had us up to 3' cross country fences way early on. Not my idea of how to train a jumper, but the event mentality was certainly different than mine.
Rode with one of the Leone brothers for a jumping session and he kept the fences low and posed problems instead. He was a jumper trainer. Oddly enough, I think it was Michael Plumb, a three day rider, who also did a lot of grid work posing problems in another clinic. Both these guys worked at lower heights than the horses jumped in competition.
The State Park area where I used to board is "Headquarters" for one of the hunts. As a result there are all kinds of jumps in the woods. Every one has a "go around," and many are just small. That kind of situation is great to encourage an insecure horse to jump things. Hope your hunting area has easier options so Jazz can find his confidence level when he's with the other horses.
Interesting experiment, letting him choose. I'm glad he was expressive enough to "explain" and that you were wise enough to listen.
The laziness and stubborness are another matter best dealt with by stern correction and, as you suggest, consistency. The frustration is that you will not be able to let him get away with even the little things as time goes on. Horses, like children, read our lack of resolve really fast and will take advantage at every opportunity. (Long time teacher of adolescents speaking here.) Firm, fair, consistent--the bywords for discipline.
All in all you had a great day, I think. Many worthwhile revelations have made you draw some pretty sound conclusions.
Interesting, the different approaches Jean. Jazz finds grids very simple for some reason, even when they are set "wrong". In fact in the single stride double on Saturday I definitely felt him put 3 strides in, one short and two more tiny! Hunting will teach him to go from any approach, if only in an effort to stay with his buddies :-)
He's a very peculiar horse, and it will be a challenge not to let him get away with wilful behaviour, (which we all know he is more than capable of!), while also not allowing his sheer athleticism to mask a mental struggle.
I'm going to continue to compete locally over lower heights than he is happy to train over because I think that it will help him grow up to be out and about. But for a few months I will let him choose when he is ready to jump bigger things. The beauty of the drag hunt near me, apart from the fact that they don't chase live quarry, is that the jumps are generally quite small and the bigger ones always optional.
It can be a bit hairy with people not able to control their horses/ponies and I particularly hate the people who push into the queue at fences. But Jazz is very calm in company and I don't expect him to be a problem to manage in a pelham.
C
He sounds more and more like Torsion. The only difference is when Torsion is unsure or thinks his rider isn't going to hold up their end of the bargain, he bolts. Only way to stop him is run him into a wall.. if it's a fence, he'll jump it.
Funny thing is he's also a warmblood. Trakehner X
How about some loose schooling over fences...really helped Korskie sort out where all his bits should be going!
I think Jazz is the same Styric. If he loses faith in me he goes through the electric fence around the outdoor or tries to box out the breezeblock wall on the indoor. I've always been convinced that if the arena was fenced he'd simply jump it!
The challenge with him now is to block his objectionable "I'm a Prince" behaviour while respecting his "I'm a baby I'm not ready" behaviour. What a challenge!
Like grids Mandeigh, you put up a fence when he's loose and he just jumps it! Good try!!
C.
Really pleased you've come to the conclusion that Jazz just needs more time to mature physically. I know the warmblood people have always said they take a long time to mature and i'm sure your patience will pay dividends in the future.
Let him tell you when his brain and body have caught up with his breeding - you're good at listening as today proves.
I do still believe however that continuing to ask him to show jump, even lower heights won't help him any to start loving the game. Hunting will tell you once and for all if it's a game he will enjoy with time but i'd leave it at that until after christmas. Let him assimilate the information and experiences and then ask the SJ questions again - otherwise it's just flogging a dead horse (excuse the phrase) in that you don't truly give him a chance to grow up and get his round it all. You risk putting him off it permanently if the SJ continues and he really doesn't see the fun of it yet - whether that be because he needs to be taught to be brave or because he needs to have confidence in his ability.
Waffle waffle
T
"why these Warmblood horses have a reputation for being "any amateur's ride" - "
OH! WHERE ON EARTH HAVE YOU HEARD THIS????
This is NOT their reputation on the continent LOL! They are advanced rider horses, that was the already trained one, so for training one of them, I guess you must know their psychology etc ...
No they are not easy horses to train or ride. The breeders send the horses throught the "classic S-J" (4 yrs, 5yrs, 6 yrs), but when an international rider find one he likes ( like Eric NAVET OR Michel ROBERT) they bring their horses VERY SLOWLY!
They must have their reasons.
On the French Equestrian TV : Equidia, that was a program about S-J. Well the first book about jumping date from 1610-1627. They did not write about riding technique but about training technique. They wrote that when a horse refused to jump ---> to make him jump from the ground. Then later on in the same program, they show "an écuyer du Cadre Noir" ( a trainer from le cadre Noir) who was jumping his horse on the long-reins !!! He eplained that the horse was young (5yrs old) he needed to unblock his mental for jumping. So without the rider, he made him jump higher and higher. up to 1m40. In order to give him self-confidence, showing that he could jump w/o hurting himself!
Maybe something to try with Jazz.
Note : the horse was excellently well trained on the long-reins, as the trainer jumped him up to 1m40 without a lungeing whip for backing his voice cue ...
Another note : In France they do not hunt SF, more the Trotteur.
They may also have their reasons.
I am glad you are back to be your strong willing happy self :-)
keep going Caroline, you will have a Grand horse!
It is quite interesting that everyone has come to more or less the same conculsion about Jazz.
"Warmblood for amateurs" is surely only in contrast to a TB or TBX which up until recent times was the most common horse available in the UK. And up until the advent of the warmblood there wasn't much of an alternative. But it seems that "different" rather than easier might be a better description.
I remember an article in H & H when a Well Known Dressage Rider (might have been Carl Hester or Richard Davidson) said that "middle aged ladies buy a nice quiet 3 year old warmblood and then when it gets to 6 they can't ride it." I'm not including you in that category Caroline! But I expect you can see why that might be so!
I would have thought that above all a warmblood is a performance horse.
There isn't a specific "family all rounder" breed in the UK. (Opening for someone?).
Have your heard how Jazz's brother/half brother is getting on. The one that was injured because it trashed its lorry!
Judith
No problem Caroline, I respect different approaches and am always open to learning from them. Lets see what happens.
Tracey B
Oooh, well some interesting points. I'm not sure that I can wait until after Christmas to see if he enjoys the drag ..... the weather is an issue, and they do tend to hunt the hills later in the winter and I won't put him under that much strain (it's tough, boggy ground with severe rises and falls). But most of all I'd have a terrible problem waiting that long just for a group ride where I can avoid the fences if he's not going for it. I understand the point, but I don't think I could stand it mentally.
The point about putting him off showjumping altogether is a good one. It's why I have stopped the training for the moment, because I actually felt that we were in danger of breaking something permanently if we didn't recognise his lack of progress and work out what is going on.
I will still take him to some little shows. It's clear to me when he's unhappy and I'll be watching for it before it blows his brain.
Muriel (and Mandeigh), I'll do some more loose jumping with him as the winter goes on. It makes a nice change from riding in the barn every day that it's wet.
Judith I was thinking that I must ring about the brother. I know the father has issues, as I think you know. I believe that some days he simply decides that he's not interested in jumping for his Grand Priz rider, but that he is much more consistent with the stable jockeys at less highly pressured competition.
C
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